Building tribe population


#1

i would like to preface this with my lack of any game development know how.

so i’ve no noticed that by observing these suggestions that there’s no mention of how your tribe population would grow, please tell me otherwise if its mentioned in a video or on the forums or something. so i suggest a system where you could incorporate tribes, this could be peacefully or aggressively, and of course a “breeding” system where your population would grow naturally. in the case of peaceful incorporation i suggest a system where if your tribes are friendly enough through trade or other means that you could choose to “incorporate” them. in order to have an aggressive incorporation you need a raid system, i suggest in order to fit my incorporation system, the player would select a tribe then select a raid option in a sort of diplomacy screen, once you’ve selected raid you could select incorporate, along with this raid selection screen you could choose to raid for resources and such. if there’s another better functioning raid system that fits this that’s fine, this is just a place holder type thing. once raided and incorporated, maybe for a certain period of time those tribesmen that were incorporated might have a low “loyalty” or something, so if you’re raided there’s a chance that they might desert you or even turn on you if you’ve been bad to them or something. for the natural breeding thing i think that’s kind of self explanatory, i don’t think that the game should really show it, so maybe it would be like the sims, but like the sims i’m sure people will mod it.

i know that raping and pillaging was a very prevalent thing but i really don’t think that should be a part of the game. i also think my aggressive incorporation thing might be to aggressive as it could suggest things i guess, but at the very least peaceful incorporation should be included if you’re friendly enough with a tribe. again i have no clue how difficult this is to make so yeah.


#2

From what I understand about human history, nomadic tribes joining together would have been essentially unheard of. In fact, it would have been much more common for tribes to split. This is mainly due to nomadic life not being able to support large populations in one area.

Post agricultural revolution, populations grew very quickly and it became impossible to return to nomadic life since people would’ve starved. It is at this point that separate populations would possibly join together, but this would generally be to acquire new land.

My point is that “natural” population growth would be the standard. Once civilizations grow and adjoin each other, they would likely merge in a similar “natural” way. Since Dave is mostly interested in PVE and cooperative multiplayer, “raids” or in larger civilizations, wars, might be something that the Sapiens would attempt on their own, while it would be up to the player to work with other players to stem the tide of tribalism and work to create harmonious societies.


#3

i think what your trying to say is that a incorporation system is somewhat useless, if i’m wrong please correct me. to begin i’m going to assume that in the context of pve for this game is player versus animals and pvp is player versus npc tribes. while yes what you said is true about population growth, these events were over 200,000 years and our population growth out paced our technological growth for most of human history. the thing is about this game is that first off its a game and it wont be over the span of 200,000 years, but what i’m more fearful of is that from its appearance technological growth moves faster than population growth (unless tribesmen and townsmen just pop out kids in a second) causing a game where you can build large villages but you have to wait for your population to match it causing somewhat of a boring experience while you wait for your population to match your technological capabilities. to combat this i suggest that there’s an ability to acquire neighboring populations to supplement for that lack in population. i believe in early game this would be way more important than in later game where population growth becomes exponential.


#4

If you look at the steam page it clearly says. “Advance your tribe trough thousands of years of technological development” I’m pretty sure it won’t be 200 000 years but 5000 - 6000 in the past too now would be enough time for nomads and modern time and everything in between. Correct me if I’m wrong when it comes to the correct timespans of when people still were nomads.


#5

i see where you’re coming from, but unless generations go by really fast in this game(which it probably will to a degree), technology still seems to progress faster than populations probably would, this is because you don’t want to spend 5 real life day learning how to make a fire in the name of realism. for
so for example you would probably be able to make fire and build basic homes within your first hour of playing the game, it seems you’ll likely have a lot of room to grow but to small of a population unless within that time a good amount of generations have gone by, if you do this you wont have enough time with your civilians to make legitimate connections with them. i just think that having the ability to acquire people once you’re able to build a town hall or maybe even less than that could make the game feel better, and it would add a cool feature to the game.

the game could be especially cool if it promoted friendly integration more so interacting with other tribes and trading with them could have some cool rewards.

i also see that there could be a balance issue with my idea but i think if done right it would add a new layer to the game. to combat the possible balance issue there could be maybe a delay period(similar to the vassal integration system in stellaris) or a barrier to entry so you kind of have to establish your tribe first before acquiring new people when technological growth starts to accelerate, this could be done through a town hall thing so you have to develop that first.

sorry if this is a little all over the place i just came up with some other possible ideas.


#6

I see what you mean about the pace of technological progress vs population growth. It’s a game though, like you said, so I think that this won’t be a problem. I don’t see how we’d ever have to wait for population to catch up with technology. Since it’s a game, people would make discovers far more quickly than real humans did, but unless you’re talking about technology that would require many people to operate, I’m not sure how it’s necessarily attached to population size.

It seems to me that the most beneficial thing about befriending other populations would be that having more sapiens would increase the number of people discovering new things. With that in mind, it would definitely be beneficial to be in the good graces of neighbors and maybe even merge populations.

However, I’m only pointing out that until the society has discovered farming, large populations simply could not survive in close proximity to each other. Hunter-gatherer societies need miles and miles of land in order to have what’s necessary to survive. Neighboring tribes would pose a very real threat to hunter-gatherers because they would be eating up finite resources.

Sapiens only started farming 12,000-23,000 years ago, and I don’t think going through thousands of years of technological growth would be tedious. It seems that players would have a great incentive to guide the discovery of farming near the beginning of gameplay since farming would greatly increase the population and therefore technological growth of a population.

I’d also like to point out that PVP in this game can/will be truly PVP. This is designed to be fully multiplayer capable. So when I say PVE, I’m including NPC Sapien populations.

edit: I should point out that when I say thousands of years of technological growth I mean in terms of how long real life Sapiens took to achieve this growth. I would think that every Sapien in this game would basically have the brainpower of Newton, Aristotle, and Einstein all combined lol so one Sapien could discover in their lifetime what it may have taken many generations of real sapiens to discover.